I am searching for infirmation on my great great grandfather. He signed a few treaties, one in 1798. I have several different spellings of his name. His daughter Alice Massingale Taylor or Taylour married a Dr. Greenbury Browne. I can’t find any information about him or her. It was said that she was the daughter of a chief. Any information would be greatly appreciated.
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There was no one by the name of Taylor that signed the Treaty of Tellico in 1798. And, all of the signatories had Cherokee Names at that time. There were no other formalized treaties signed in that year either. See:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherokee_treaties
http://www.cherokee.org/About-The-Nation/History/Facts/Treaty-of-the-Cherokee-1798-Oct-2
Additionally, all treaty signing leaders would have to have some social standing, and this meant they’d likely have a little bit of age to them, or they’d usually be on the older side even.
Even if we allow for a few warriors that had gained leadership or positions of authority within the tribe at a faster pace (let’s say mid 20s or so), they’d still have birth years well before the American Revolution.
There is an Alice M. Taylor that married a Dr. Greenbury Browne here:
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/116582940#view-photo=88008563
This Alice was born in 1865 in Ohio, and is listed as Black or sometimes “mulatto” in records. Depending on the census year, her parent’s places of birth are listed as: Louisiana or Alabama (father) and Ohio or Illinois (mother). There is no way a treaty signing Cherokee chief that was involved in the 1789 treaty would be producing children listed as “Black”, born in Ohio in the mid 1860s. Although, as with a lot of African American lineages, it might be harder to trace back further, particularly if there are southern roots (and found in bondage prior to 1865).
If this is not the same lineage you are looking for, you’d probably have to include some more specific information, including names of offspring or years of various life events (e.g. birth, death).
I can’t thank you enough!!!!! When I was given this information I was a bit leery when I could not find clear supporting documentation. I just read your last message and I agree completely!!!! Thank you for the info about the Dawes Rolls.. you have not discouraged me. You have encouraged me to keep looking. You are right about the “tales” of belonging to a Native tribe being popular. I am not judging whomever shared the wrong information. They wanted to belong because they understood what a beautiful powerful culture it is. I am still hopeful that I will find some connection to Cherokees but I will be pleased either way. Thank you for providing answers. While they were not what I’d hope for I am
grateful to be on the right track. Thank you! I’m going to wipe the slate clean and start from
Alice and Greenbury. I am going to toss the rest. Thanks again!!!!!!!!
I think the Alice on the 1116 card is the grandmother of my Alice Taylor (Browne). Alice’s father was named Wilburne Taylor, mother Harriett A. Williams. I haven’t found documentation but I think Wilburne’s parents are John Taylor and Alice (the White womani on the Dawes card. Do you think this sounds plausible?
I had located a marriage certicate in past searches but I deleted Wilburne after the conclusion of our last convo. I can find Wilburne, Harriett and Alice on census records. I can also find Wilburne on census records as being born Indian Territory in Oklahoma.
I had ordered the Dawes card and was going to cancel but I think I will move ahead with the order. Alice named one of her sons Thomas Wilburn Southerland Browne. I think it was after her father Wilburne. Now I just need to find Wilburne’s parents.
Your last message made me start digging Ang after deleting everyone above my Alice I started to think that maybe John Taylor was her grandfather not her father. What do you think?
Ok never mind. I just re read your message and the dates are not adding up. There is no way the Alice on the 1116 card is connected to my Alice. My Alice was born in 1165 and this Alice was born in 1874 (according to your message).
Sorry but I have another question for you. It looks like Wilburne (my Alices’s father) was born in Indian territory. Do you happen to have any information about him?
Sorry I meant 1865 (my Alices’s birth year)
Hello! Thank you for your response. Are you well versed in Cherokee? The question is not meant to be offfensive. You do In fact have the correct Alice M Taylor and Greenbury Browne but I have several documents that indicate she was Cherokee. I even found her in the Dawes Roll. It is my understanding she was biracial and had some Cherokee lineage. Dawes Rolls list her as 1/2 blood.
Please don’t misunderstand my questions as I appreciate of your response. I am simply trying to gauge how to incorporate this information to what I already have.
The treaty list Ookouseteeh or John Taylor.. From what I have read English names were taken because native names were difficult to pronounce. I have also learned that some tribes actually owned slaves. Does any of this sound plausible? Again, I appreciate your response.
Also, Greenbury Browne’s biosketch in historical documents in Kansas ;(African American physicians) list his wife as half Cherokee.
I realize a lot of what I know may only be bits and pieces of the truth but I’ve been told orally and between documents from
Kansas and the Dawes rolls I think there maybe something to this.
I know it is impossible to hear my tone so please know that my response is one of humility.
Respectfully,
Ayanna
Ah yes, there was a Cherokee man using that AKA name, listed as a witness in the Treaty of Tellico. I was looking at the signatory chiefs and missed this fellow listed down below. Sorry about that. But, I did a little more digging and it appears he was a war captain in the 1790s. So, at that time he wasn’t considered a full chief, per se. Minor distinction in some cases I guess, because he was still would have been seen as a war leader anyway. However, again, we are coming up against an age problem here. The fact that this fellow used an Anglo name (along with a Cherokee one) is not necessarily indicating that this is a Taylor in your line. Consider, he would have been of some higher warrior status, since he was leading war parties (as a captain) and had the respect of his peers. Perhaps he wouldn’t have been quite as old as most of the signatory chiefs at that time. But, let’s say he would have likely been late 20 through 30s on the youngest side. Older war captain may have been 40+. Again, even on the younger side, he would have been born before the Revolutionary War. There is no way he would be producing a daughter born in Ohio in 1865, at the closing of the Civil War.
It seems that this fellow just happens to share a surname with someone in your lineage. But, this fellow didn’t travel to Ohio and have a daughter at age 100+. Wrong time and location, in other words.
That Alice Taylor listed on Dawes card 1116 is also not your Alice Taylor.
This particular family was headed by a John Taylor who was born in Indian Territory in 1852. His father was listed as non-citizen (non-Cherokee) and his mother was Cherokee. He married Alice Oliver, a White lady. She was born in 1874 in Kentucky, and moved into Indian Territory in the late 1800s, at the height of White settlement into that location. After they were married they lived out their lives in Indian Territory/Oklahoma.
It appears that you have family lore of Cherokee ancestry through your Alice. However, I’d recommend sticking to standard genealogical methods. Theorizing connections is fine if it has some basis for verification, kind of like testing a hypothesis. It’s also better to work from closer generations and move back in time.
What we know about Alice at this point is her place and location of birth, 1865 in Ohio. We also know she was identified as Black or sometimes “mulatto” and her parents are listed with places of birth in the south. Sometimes, it’s good to take a step back and look at the larger picture for African American genealogy and the manifestation of family lore. Native ancestry in Black families is often eagerly theorized and claimed, but it is actually not as common as some might otherwise think, or it’s found at much lower average levels. In other words, the stories are ubiquitous but often don’t pan out when real research is done.
I’d also recommend checking out Dr. Henry Louis Gate’s work on this field of inquiry. He’s really good at clarifying African American genealogy, family lore, DNA, etc. This research is definitely more difficult than White Americans genealogy in most cases.
https://www.theroot.com/high-cheekbones-and-straight-black-hair-1790878167
This isn’t said to discourage, of course. Just encouraging you to research with more information or specific context. African American genealogy is quite a bit different than White genealogy (for lack of better terms). Often, you’ll come up against that 1865 slavery curtain. The majority of this population was in bondage prior to 1865, and most were living in the south. So, there is a dearth of records. Or, often, there will be NO records for various lineages going back into pre-Emancipation generations. One possible avenue to explore these days is DNA testing. I’d recommend going with the more well-known companies, that have more sensitive testing methodologies. If you can find direct maternal descendants, you can at least clarify the mtDNA lineages.
Unfortunately, I haven’t been able to track down much specific information on your Alice. So, I can’t really offer anything more tangible here. But, I wish you best of luck in your family research endeavors!
Here is the treaty I found him on.
http://www.cherokee.org/About-The-Nation/History/Facts/Treaty-of-the-Cherokee-1798-Oct-2
What do you think?
I’ll see if I can find a better link
Sorry one more thing. On the Dawes roll I see two John taylor’s and an Alice Taylor (card 1116, roll ID 22786.
Thank you so much for your insight. After re-reading your posts it sounds like you are Cherokee. I really appreciate your insight.